New Shockwave

[Colin Day]

The spray from your wand hits the carpet for a second at most, cleaning dishes or clothes requires them to be submerged in water and the heat for a lot lot longer, that's the difference, heat requires sustained time to work, which it doesn't get much of with carpet carpet cleaning.

If you want a fairer test spray a really dirty dried in grease ridden dish or jumper with your carpet wand with steaming hot water and then cold water for just one second, the difference is slight at best.

It's fair to say though heat brings a difference, its not huge like people seem to think, were kinda conditioned to think it makes a big difference from a a young age, and from people selling tm's and chemicals that need heat to activate .

Drying times are also improved but again you cant compare a dish with a flat surface to a carpet, both will dry differently with hot and cold. the dish will always dry more efficiently as flat surfaces have more access to air than water under threads of a carpet.

The debate will always rage on

I'm assuming you've actually tried both methods, judging by your comprehensive post.

I have a cold water petrol pressure washer and now of course, the Zeta. I can tell you that the hot water definitely cleans my patio more effectively....

Does anyone want to buy a cold water pressure washer..... £60?

 

[Russ Chadd]

The spray from your wand hits the carpet for a second at most, cleaning dishes or clothes requires them to be submerged in water and the heat for a lot lot longer, that's the difference, heat requires sustained time to work, which it doesn't get much of with carpet carpet cleaning.

If you want a fairer test spray a really dirty dried in grease ridden dish or jumper with your carpet wand with steaming hot water and then cold water for just one second, the difference is slight at best.

It's fair to say though heat brings a difference, its not huge like people seem to think, were kinda conditioned to think it makes a big difference from a a young age, and from people selling tm's and chemicals that need heat to activate .

Drying times are also improved but again you cant compare a dish with a flat surface to a carpet, both will dry differently with hot and cold. the dish will always dry more efficiently as flat surfaces have more access to air than water under threads of a carpet.

The debate will always rage on

That's a fair comment, probably not the best comparison... dirty dishes and a carpet but you get my drift about the use of hot water compared to cold.
I come from a car detailing background and many times i have been asked to "steam clean" engine bays on vehicles. Some valeters prefer to use a strong alkaline pre spray and then power rinse with a cold water machine, i on the other hand pre spray and use a hot water pressure washer to rinse.

The end results will be similar, but using a cold water pressure washer you may have to repeat the same process several times and mix your pre spray a lot stronger, so when it comes to steam cleaning engines using hot water reduces time and chemicals used.

Hot water used on carpets may enhance the cleaning efficiency depending on chemical used, all i can say is that cleaning dirty restaurant carpets sometimes demands a strong pre spray, and hot water is definitely effective...

 

[Andrew Evans]

I pre spray with hot solution and to be honest if the Jag had a heater I would have been less hesitant in buying it, But so far so good even on a grubby tight looped wool carpet I cleaned the other day I rinsed with cold water having pre sprayed hot came up a treat. (lots of agitation and pre vac though)

But if you use the Zeta plus the Jag are you putting too much current through,( having already tripped a few consumer units) also would the vac's of a jag run with more than say 150ft of hose without loss of performance and is the Prowler basically all of the above with less cables and hassle but more expensive and greater amount of hose.

Wouldn't putting vac's on the Zeta create what we are looking for an electric TM or is that a long way off

Thanks

Andrew

 

[adrian marsh]

I pre spray with hot solution and to be honest if the Jag had a heater I would have been less hesitant in buying it, But so far so good even on a grubby tight looped wool carpet I cleaned the other day I rinsed with cold water having pre sprayed hot came up a treat. (lots of agitation and pre vac though)

But if you use the Zeta plus the Jag are you putting too much current through,( having already tripped a few consumer units) also would the vac's of a jag run with more than say 150ft of hose without loss of performance and is the Prowler basically all of the above with less cables and hassle but more expensive and greater amount of hose.

Wouldn't putting vac's on the Zeta create what we are looking for an electric TM or is that a long way off

Thanks

Andrew

Steady Andrew, people know where you live, you'll be getting a visit from "the boys" with posts like that.

We always want more don't we? Great results using both methods but we're still not happy. From an end user point of view, there must be enough people out there who have expressed a desire/want for the machine that Andrew asks for. If it has heat we don't have to use it, but if it's not here at all then we can't anyway. Now I don't want to upset any manufacturer or supplier but, the first one who brings this machine to market will kick the rest into the long grass. There IS a demand for a portable truckmount, can it be that difficult?

 

[Steve Porter]

You could always step back in time & go "Bane Clene"?
What you want & what you're prepared to pay are probably very differant?
If I said that I could bring to production an electric, very portable, quiet machine that has Tm heat, large blower instead of vacs, 200ft+ hose runs, weighs in at 195kg empty, fits in a Combo & has lots of buttons, bling & does all the biz would you be interested??
Now if I told you that it's yours, fitted for only £7K would you still be interested or would you now think about a beefier mid range Tm?????
Personally I'd look at a tm, doesn't matter what you do (unless someone invents a ultra powerful, frugal on electric blower) you're still trying to eek every amp every watt of power from a standard 230v supply.
Get yourself a proper tm & shove a dumper truck engine in it, sorted!!

 

[John Bolton]

............... also would the vac's of a jag run with more than say 150ft of hose without loss of performance

Andrew,

That is a "Do you still beat your wife?" question!

The irrefutable laws of physics, which apply to any extraction machine, dictate that as you increase resistance to air flow, the airflow decreases. As you increase the volume of the enclosed hose/tank system, it takes longer to develop full potential vacuum.

Since both these factors speak to the performance of any extraction machine the only truthful answer is no!

 

[Colin Day]

I pre spray with hot solution and to be honest if the Jag had a heater I would have been less hesitant in buying it, But so far so good even on a grubby tight looped wool carpet I cleaned the other day I rinsed with cold water having pre sprayed hot came up a treat. (lots of agitation and pre vac though)

But if you use the Zeta plus the Jag are you putting too much current through,( having already tripped a few consumer units) also would the vac's of a jag run with more than say 150ft of hose without loss of performance and is the Prowler basically all of the above with less cables and hassle but more expensive and greater amount of hose.

Wouldn't putting vac's on the Zeta create what we are looking for an electric TM or is that a long way off

Thanks

Andrew

I haven't tripped anything yet, the Zeta only powers the pump/motor, not the heating capability, thats what the diesel is for...

We are taking about adding 1 extra cable into the equation and, if you like, a hose running from an outside tap to Zeta for constant, uninterrupted water supply. Add to that the fact that the Jag has auto dump, you are almost certainly running an electric TM, but when it comes to being portable, the Zeta's a chunk at 63kg... You decide, muscles....

 

[Jim Neal]

Andy you're going in the wrong direction - you wouldn't want to add vac motors to a hot pressure washer, simply add a diesel burner to a portable and hey presto Personally I think a propane burner would be better.

Regarding the posts about "how hot" we are cleaning at, people are forgetting that whatever the water starts at it is most certainly not hitting the carpet at that temperature.

The water is leaving my TM at 110 degrees C when it's warmed up nicely, but after it's gone down a couple of lengths of solution hose and been atomised out of the wand jets it is considerably lower.

This is a bit of a problem with constant flow tools like the drimaster - because it doesn't atomise the water and maintains a constant flow which keeps up the heat, you can end up with stupidly hot solution, and have to turn the temperature down. You can turn the heat on most TMs down - mine will reduce from 230F down to about 180F if I crank the temperature control right back. Wave goodbye to half a tank full of water though!

I have actually tested heat loss. I've taken the temp in the tank of my Ninja, and along 25ft of hose to a 2x '03 jet wand, the drop of temp was 85 in the tank down to 70 out of the jets. That pump head didn't last long, I stopped bypassing the safety stop on the thermostat after that

So.... 90 degrees out of a zeta is probably 75 at most as it hits the carpet. Hardly going to scorch anything

I'm still more concerned that you have to crank this machine up to a stupid pressure in order to get the required flow rate out of it. Nick, have you considered modifying it with a pump more suited to carpet cleaning? A lower pressure but higher flow would be much better

Sorry I said I wasn't going to make any more long winded posts tonight

 

[Colin Day]

"I'm still more concerned that you have to crank this machine up to a stupid pressure in order to get the required flow rate out of it. Nick, have you considered modifying it with a pump more suited to carpet cleaning? A lower pressure but higher flow would be much better"

I have mine set at around 300-400psi with a good flow rate and constant temperature. But I see your point, Jim...

 

[Joe Hatton]

The flow rate on the jaguar is more then the Scorpion, I reckon. I use more water anyway.

The heat debate goes on, and probably will for a looooooong time.

I have given up bothering, I have had 2 truck mounts, come back to the Scorpion and now the Jaguar and I can tell you I am more then satisfied with the results of the Jaguar.

The machine is only part of the equation to get a good clean. Dont forget the operator and the cleaning substance.
Having tried Nicks "new" powder, SPM, over the last few weeks - I think its the bees knees.
OK, might need something beefier for really really bad jobs ie restaurants, but not done such for ages so no problems.

 

[Colin Day]

The flow rate on the jaguar is more then the Scorpion, I reckon. I use more water anyway.

The heat debate goes on, and probably will for a looooooong time.

I have given up bothering, I have had 2 truck mounts, come back to the Scorpion and now the Jaguar and I can tell you I am more then satisfied with the results of the Jaguar.

The machine is only part of the equation to get a good clean. Dont forget the operator and the cleaning substance.
Having tried Nicks "new" powder, SPM, over the last few weeks - I think its the bees knees.
OK, might need something beefier for really really bad jobs ie restaurants, but not done such for ages so no problems.

I am a big fan of the SPM and have done some real rotten jobs with it with outstanding results... And the Jaguar? I'm completely converted to a carpet cleaning machine that looks like an ice cream cart and wouldn't go back to either of my 2 last machines.....

 

[Russ Chadd]

If water flow rate is important remember that the Zeta is available with a max output of1500 psi @ 8.5 litres per min.
Also fitting larger jet to a wand can also decrease back pressure and improve flow.
Colin is right about the cables... its quite simple!
You go to B&Q and you buy 2 good quality extension leads, you run vacs 1 and 2 from one and the zeta from the other. And make sure each extension lead is running off a separate circuit!

Andrew if your Jag is tripping the electric this could be the problem:

1 You are switching both motors on together... increase the delay time between vacs 1 and 2
2 Your extension lead or leads are old
3 Your extension leads are not fully unwound

Jim, in most cases i set the zeta to about 400 psi and this is more than enough for domestic cleaning... bear in mind that i have had a few problems with the non return valves on my 4 jet wand which has been restricting the flow thats probably why i had to wind up the pressure the other day.
It would be interesting for you to try out the zeta as you have experience using a TM, any suggestions to improve performance etc would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Joe Hatton]

Andrew if your Jag is tripping the electric this could be the problem:

1 You are switching both motors on together... increase the delay time between vacs 1 and 2
2 Your extension lead or leads are old
3 Your extension leads are not fully unwound

Happened to me a few weeks ago, 2 houses.

I reckon I was too quick flicking switches. Next job I slowed down on the flicking and been ok since.

 

[Andrew Evans]

Andrew if your Jag is tripping the electric this could be the problem:

1 You are switching both motors on together... increase the delay time between vacs 1 and 2
2 Your extension lead or leads are old
3 Your extension leads are not fully unwound
That's exactly what happened but also had a Turbo dryer in another room on full bore as the carpets needed to be dry before people moved in the next morning.

Hasn't happened since though

 

[John Bolton]

The only delay in switching the vac motors on my machine is the fraction of a second that it takes my thumb to move between two buttons of the remote control and I have never triggered a trip switch (And the pump motor is switched at the same instant as vac 1).