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Julian Rowe
Cleantalk Member
Of course the finish was intact. When I say pretty heavy agitation, I dont mean going at it like i do my fingernails after fixing my car, but strong enough to remove the ingrained soiling without damaging anything.
CHAT is great but all those elements have their limits and in that case you need to increase one of the others to compensate if the soiling still isnt budging.
Jules
CHAT is great but all those elements have their limits and in that case you need to increase one of the others to compensate if the soiling still isnt budging.
Jules
Alan Lui
Cleantalk Member
yes the finish can be cracked but I would still say that some brush bristles when flagged are far softer than a sponge and most definitely Not aggressive,
if the accumulated dirt that had been left on leathers surface over such a long period, especially enough to damage it, then a good tech should see and know this, and I would expect them to be able to make a judgment call on what was needed. especially if they are there assessing it, again if a sponge is aggressive and flagged brushes are not...?
at the end of the day, even if someone removed too much previously damaged finished, by sponge, brush or whatever method, one would hope they would at least replace the finish, which would involve pretty much no effort and the cost would be minimal.
if the accumulated dirt that had been left on leathers surface over such a long period, especially enough to damage it, then a good tech should see and know this, and I would expect them to be able to make a judgment call on what was needed. especially if they are there assessing it, again if a sponge is aggressive and flagged brushes are not...?
at the end of the day, even if someone removed too much previously damaged finished, by sponge, brush or whatever method, one would hope they would at least replace the finish, which would involve pretty much no effort and the cost would be minimal.
Ian Hare
Cleantalker Veteran
To keep this discussion in context, let's all agree that we are talking about a regular cleaning process; in which we are not expecting to follow with any repair work; as opposed to pre-cleaning before a restoration process. 
Then none of us are talking at cross purposes.
Good input from some experienced sources.
Then none of us are talking at cross purposes.
Good input from some experienced sources.
Like with anything some processes that may be ok in the hands of an experienced technician could be very dangerous for the newbie or inexperienced and caution would be the watchword.
Thanks Ian - the cleaning process can easily become a restoration one which not all technicians are able to deal with - there is a fine line
Cheers
Judyb
Thanks Ian - the cleaning process can easily become a restoration one which not all technicians are able to deal with - there is a fine line
Cheers
Judyb
Alan Lui
Cleantalk Member
"To keep this discussion in context, let's all agree that we are talking about a regular cleaning process; in which we are not expecting to follow with any repair work; as opposed to pre-cleaning before a restoration process. "
I attended a cleaning job, about a year or so ago for cleaning and it turned very quickly into a shocker.
deep clean on a clothe, barely touched the arm and the colour coat disappeared, it was manufacturing fault, faulty finish etc etc.
anyone cleaning leather should be able to carry out basic assessment of the leather which includes finish condition and some restoration knowledge at least applying a basic finish coat to replace anything like a worn finish coat, or they could come unstuck very quickly.
"I attended a cleaning job, about a year or so ago for cleaning and it turned very quickly into a shocker.
deep clean on a clothe, barely touched the arm and the colour coat disappeared, it was manufacturing fault, faulty finish etc etc.
anyone cleaning leather should be able to carry out basic assessment of the leather which includes finish condition and some restoration knowledge at least applying a basic finish coat to replace anything like a worn finish coat, or they could come unstuck very quickly.
I agree thats why we have the assessment process so the customer can also understand that cleaning does not always solve the problem. Not all cleaners want to go down the restoration route however we always recommend the full training so they have an overall view of problems they may see and how they can be resolved
Cheers
Judyb
Cheers
Judyb
Ian Hare
Cleantalker Veteran
I don't agree that anyone cleaning leather should be able to carry out restoration.
They are two distinct disciplines.
Anyone carrying out cleaning though, should be aware of the inherent danger of causing damage by over aggressive cleaning and creating a restoration that may have not been required otherwise.
Good input Alan.
They are two distinct disciplines.
Anyone carrying out cleaning though, should be aware of the inherent danger of causing damage by over aggressive cleaning and creating a restoration that may have not been required otherwise.
Good input Alan.
Julian Rowe
Cleantalk Member
Debate is always good.
It's cos we're all passionate about the subject.
I was referring to just a clean with no follow up restoration work. In the cases where finish is already cracked and damaged and as a result filled up with soil, you would identify that at survey stage, advise accordingly and proceed with caution.
As I said in post 10 and Judy said above, there is a fine line between one process ending and the next beginning.
The original theme of this thread from James was that if he has to scrub he should change his cleaning solutions.
That just seems far too simplistic a response and could lead James down the path of spending a lot of money on new products only to find that he has exactly the same result. As Scott says, try stuff from various suppliers and make up your own mind.
Perhaps my response was also too simplistic saying sometimes you've got to scrub, because, even though sometimes you do have to (despite some claims to the contrary), there are limits within which you must stay. Experience and training will tell you where those limits are.
Jules
It's cos we're all passionate about the subject.
I was referring to just a clean with no follow up restoration work. In the cases where finish is already cracked and damaged and as a result filled up with soil, you would identify that at survey stage, advise accordingly and proceed with caution.
As I said in post 10 and Judy said above, there is a fine line between one process ending and the next beginning.
The original theme of this thread from James was that if he has to scrub he should change his cleaning solutions.
That just seems far too simplistic a response and could lead James down the path of spending a lot of money on new products only to find that he has exactly the same result. As Scott says, try stuff from various suppliers and make up your own mind.
Perhaps my response was also too simplistic saying sometimes you've got to scrub, because, even though sometimes you do have to (despite some claims to the contrary), there are limits within which you must stay. Experience and training will tell you where those limits are.
Jules
Daniel Darlow
Cleantalk Member
To scrub, or not to scrub, that is the question.
Without the knowledge or equipment to rectify, how on earth can anyone take on a clean like this, (see photo.)
In fact the initial enquiry was 'for just a clean, as it's well overdue'.
It turned into a clean, and partial re-colour, as after a test patch clean showed so many highlighted problems of colour loss that re-colouring was the only answer. An absolute disaster if anyone took this on as just a clean, and without the right product.
The difference between fabric and leather upholstery cleaning is IMMENSE!
Without the knowledge or equipment to rectify, how on earth can anyone take on a clean like this, (see photo.)
In fact the initial enquiry was 'for just a clean, as it's well overdue'.
It turned into a clean, and partial re-colour, as after a test patch clean showed so many highlighted problems of colour loss that re-colouring was the only answer. An absolute disaster if anyone took this on as just a clean, and without the right product.
The difference between fabric and leather upholstery cleaning is IMMENSE!
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neil robinson
Cleantalk Member
So the White Ivo brushes on leather be ok?
Alan Lui
Cleantalk Member
Ian i'm not saying that all should be able to carry out full restoration, they are definitely different, what I am saying is, that finishes can and do deteriorate, and anyone passing themselves off as a professional, and cleans leather and removes the finish should be able to at least be able to replace the finish, otherwise what's the option? leave the client with something that will deteriorate even faster than if the dirt was left on......
how hard can applying a finish be, thin I'll have to go on a training course
how hard can applying a finish be, thin I'll have to go on a training course
Al - this is mostly good advice but replacing the finish is not always as simple as you make out.
Lost finish on a very dirty suite (and one that us well used) will generally cause the area to be a completely different colour as the base coat will be much cleaner than the surrounding area - this would then necessitate some degree of recolouring as well as refinishing - where do you stop?
Cheers
Judyb
Lost finish on a very dirty suite (and one that us well used) will generally cause the area to be a completely different colour as the base coat will be much cleaner than the surrounding area - this would then necessitate some degree of recolouring as well as refinishing - where do you stop?
Cheers
Judyb
J
J S
- Thread starter
- #37
I seems to have open a can of worms
Anyway , pic as promised
Anyway , pic as promised
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Ian Hare
Cleantalker Veteran
Replacing dye and sealant is restoration.
Removing dirt is cleaning,
That's the simplicity.
Anyone that is there just to clean and removes the finish at the same time is not doing their job properly.
They are either doing something wrong which removes the finish or taking on a job that they shouldn't be doing.
If they start a job which results in a little finish coming away they should stop.
It is exactly the same as cleaning fabric, if something is not right they should stop, not carry on regardless.
Removing dirt is cleaning,
That's the simplicity.
Anyone that is there just to clean and removes the finish at the same time is not doing their job properly.
They are either doing something wrong which removes the finish or taking on a job that they shouldn't be doing.
If they start a job which results in a little finish coming away they should stop.
It is exactly the same as cleaning fabric, if something is not right they should stop, not carry on regardless.
Ian Hare
Cleantalker Veteran
It's not really a can of worms James. 
It's just healthy debate, by passionate professionals. As Justin rightly points out.
We all know each other and discuss things, throwing in different angles of viewpoint.
It's all done in a good spirit, with plenty of banter involved and respect for each other.
Long may it continue.
It's just healthy debate, by passionate professionals. As Justin rightly points out.
We all know each other and discuss things, throwing in different angles of viewpoint.
It's all done in a good spirit, with plenty of banter involved and respect for each other.
Long may it continue.