Drill Brush

[Alan Lui]

Replacing dye and sealant is restoration.
Removing dirt is cleaning,

That's the simplicity.

Anyone that is there just to clean and removes the finish at the same time is not doing their job properly.
They are either doing something wrong which removes the finish or taking on a job that they shouldn't be doing.
If they start a job which results in a little finish coming away they should stop.

It is exactly the same as cleaning fabric, if something is not right they should stop, not carry on regardless.
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we're not talking about dying leather, the point that was jumped on was; wear, tear, body cheese and deterioration remove the finish on leather all on its own, if you go along clean and remove dirt by whatever means, (originally by brush) later by whatever means, you remove the dirt and often whatever finish is left under the dirt, weakened finish will be removed by the cleaning process, and some finish will have been removed by the dirt and body cheese, (possibly along with the colour coat), yes, re applying colour coat is without a doubt restoration, however do you just leave the exposed leather surface, which will be even more weakened by your actions, or do you, rectify it....?

I for one always try my utmost to leave it so it will give my client the best service life possible, and leaving an exposed skin is NOT good service.....

absolutely right if you notice that the cleaning is removing colour coat then stop, and at this pint the client has a choice.

the main point above was for leather that was particularly minging and very dirty. otherwise a brush would not be used

Simplicity..? not sure this game or any other is this.... unless of course you splash whatever around wipe it off, take a fist full of dollar say thank you very much and leave quickly.....Hmmm..

debate ist gud..

 

[Ian Hare]

Alan, that was my point, if you remove finish as part of the cleaning process, then you are not doing your job properly.
Therein lies the distinction between an average cleaner and one who knows what they are doing.

A good cleaner would not carry on in that scenario and leave a damaged surface. They would advise the owner that further work would be required, (that they either can or cannot do); and let the owner decide on their course of action.
They would not carry on and remove finish along with the dirt build up and leave it in a poor condition.
However, some unfortunately may do so.

 

[Ian Hare]

As for simplicity, everything in life is simple, it's just people that complicate things.

 

[Alan Lui]

As for simplicity, everything in life is simple, it's just people that complicate things.

to who's (spelling before the spelling Police jump in) detriment.......

 

[Alan Lui]

"Alan, that was my point, if you remove finish as part of the cleaning process, then you are not doing your job properly.
Therein lies the distinction between an average cleaner and one who knows what they are doing.

A good cleaner would not carry on in that scenario and leave a damaged surface. They would advise the owner that further work would be required, (that they either can or cannot do); and let the owner decide on their course of action.
They would not carry on and remove finish along with the dirt build up and leave it in a poor condition.
However, some unfortunately may do so."


if you remove finish from a good condition leather during cleaning then something has gone wrong and unfortunately you are wrong as there are a multitude of reasons for this to happen not just operator fault, but were we not talking about mingers, badly soiled and worn leather...? as stated body oil, saliva, dog body oil, oils from dogs coats, dust, baked beans, curry sauce and wine on leather along with a good helping of dust and a damn good polishing from the owners butt will wear down and eventually destroy a leathers finish coating, yes or no...? I'll answer yes..

so if you go and clean a minger (actually as most people don't use proper cleaning methods products or regular regimes then a lot of surfaces will deteriorate under normal crud) and use a brush or aggressive pad/sponge which is what we started with, the worn / part destroyed finish coat will come away with the body cheese and crud and the weakened finish may also come away.... no?

or do you because you know it has little or no finish coat just add it, so they have a cleaner sofa which they wanted, that has more chance of lasting them longer than it would if you just left it, even if it isn't brand new looking- I've had many of these, just clean it please for now till can afford new. if I feel that the finish has deteriorated enough then I will flash a little finish on, costs me almost nothing except little extra time and lets be honest It's very little time.

I have a lot to learn but I definitely don't want to learn anything apposed to what I feel is right.

oh and I know person who advocated the use of hard handled plastic dish brushes to clean leather with stiff bristles, albeit gently, but are they not stiff and scratchy, again far harder and aggressive than a proper flagged brush even if used on a machine.

 

[Judy Bass]

A stiff bristled brush is fine as you should never be using it to scrub the leather but just to agitate the foam cleaner into the grain pattern so it can do its job - softer bristles often do not do a good job because you would have to scrub with them as they would bend on the surface and this is not the idea.
As stiff bristled brush used in the correct way is perfectly safe and and will not scratch - again it is having the understanding of the process and the method so that the products and tools are used without doing damage

All leather should be thoroughly tested before you start cleaning and therefore you would have an understanding of what you are likely to find. You should also find out what he customer has used to clean their leather so that you can also be prepared (and prepare your customer) for any surprises particularly with the likes of baby wipes etc. The leather ID assessment process really is your risk assessment and should be used as such to take the risk out of the work you are carrying out be it cleaning or restoration. I agree that the leather should not be left in a worse state but this is why we carry out the tests prior to doing any work

Cheers
Judy

 

[Alan Lui]

agreed.... going back to flagged brushes on machine this will cause less damage than a stiff bristled brush.... and does clean

and the term scrub was used I believe by the poster as a throw away term, and shouldn't of been used, scrubbing no good....as no good comes from a scrubber....

 

[Judy Bass]

We always recommend that the stiff bristles are 'flagged' or broken before use - just no point in spending lots of money on special brushes when there is a perfectly good solution to hand

Having tried mechanical and rotary brushes I have always found that they are too harsh and certainly in the hands of a newbie could potentially do a lot of damage before you are aware of it - cleaning by hand you are far more in control of what is going on
Cheers
Judyb

 

[Julian Rowe]

...as no good comes from a scrubber...

Not sure I agree with you there, Al!

Definition of 'scrub' - rub something hard to make it clean.
I'm sure we've all had to rub certain areas hard to get them clean. Or maybe the question is how hard is hard?

 

[Ian Hare]

If finish is removed I'm afraid it is the operator's fault. They are the ones removing it, they are the last ones to touch it. The scenario may have been caused by various factors, but they are the ones actually doing the removal, and as such are responsible.

They should not be touching the furniture without qualifying the condition.
If they do they are doing something wrong.

 

[Ian Hare]

How hard do Scrubbers like it?

 

[Alan Lui]

They need it Very hard....
Jules i meant using the word scrub, as soon as it was used it became a picky point and jumped on

Yes judy if flagged better, i have also tested a lot and instead of using a small nail or washing up brush, using lots of small circular or whatever strokes you prefer, its far easier on the arm and quicker using equipment.
But you are definitely right a newbie can get carried away without the right guidance, using either.

Now thats a different scenario legal liability. Not what we was talking about

 

[Andrew Evans]

Wow I have been deliberately not reading this thread thinking it was or sounded boring.
How wrong was I, I reckon they will make a Hollywood blockbuster from this...... The Leather Scrubber or I've lost my finish touch.
Either way as a fully trained technician on a Survey I test or look for potential issues and advise accordingly.
As Al said you get asked to do the best you can etc but you need to know the diff between clean and or a likely restoration.

I use a brush to agitate but if I were to market for leather properly I would get one of these brushes purely to make it look better.
People like you using tools it looks like they are getting their money's worth.

Bit like when I fire up my truckmount or roll in my Jag it looks the part.

As for how much scrubbing any pro should know when to draw the line at the end of the day we are they to clean and or restore the clients furnishings in the safest possible way.
Thanks again enjoyed this discussion.

 

[Ian Hare]

We're just getting warmed up Andrew.

 

[Judy Bass]

Leather cleaning discussions are never boring Andrew

 

[Alan Lui]

it's a dirty topic though.....

 

[Ian Hare]

Good input from everybody.
I think we've all gained from it. It's always good to see things from other people's perspective.
We are all aiming for the same result, and "singing from the same hymn sheet", at the end of the day.

 

[J S]

Judy ., product used was F Clinic ultra clean
and before anyone asks the item i'm using to mess with / practice on is my own

 

[Ian Hare]

You told us product in your first post. Advice given was, change product.

 

[J S]

Thank you for your observation